Crisis Core: FF

[Secret Agent Cat]

Has anyone played it? I don't know if it is for any other console, but I play it on my sister's PSP. I've liked it so far but there is this part where I have a infiltrate this place in the mountains... and I have to be sneaky about it. >w<;; I've gotten stuck at that part.

Let's talk about FF7: Crisis Core.

Or, another Final Fantasy game? Who is your guys' favorite character? Mine has to be Zack and Aerith from 7. Rinoa and Squall from 8. Yuna from 10.

What FF games have you played? I've played 8 and 10, but have yet to beat either and just started playing Crisis Core and I think I played Virge of Cerberus.

[Sir Percival]

Sephiroth is my favorite >.>

Next up is Vincent Valentine.

From FFVIII, I like Seifer Almasy and Irvine Kinneas

[Rocket!]

I have a PSP, but I do not have CRISIS CORE. T__T

Final Fantasys...? Uh, welllll...

I've played both VII and X. I own both of them! VII's on my PSP, obviously... xD

But, uh... well, I kinda lost interest after I got to a part I couldn't get past on VII, and X... I guess I just plain lost interest. XD;;

FAV CHAR FAV CHAR FAV CHAR IS UM UM UMM CID HIGHWIND BECAUSE HE TALKS FUNNY.

[noxomols]

I'll tell you right now, I ain't huge on Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy VII especially receives little love from me. Sephiroth's motivations make little to no sense, and it stole the spotlight from my beloved Legend of Dragoon .

That said, I've played only three of them: Final Fantasy VIII (up to the third disk; got stuck fighting against one o' them thar sorceresses before I lost the game to a hurricane), Final Fantasy X (up to the fight against Yunalesca; my friend owned it, and though we started from the beginning several times, we never reached the end for some reason), and the first Crystal Chronicles (if you feel like counting that series). I plan to buy Final Fantasy XIII at some point in the future just because I can (take THAT, Sony!). Also, it looks and sounds pretty interesting.

In spite of not having played VII, I'm very familiar with the plot and the characters. I despise Sephiroth's character. The greatest hero mankind has ever known, who has legions of fans and the undying respect of millions, finds out he's not quite human and decides that it's necessary to throw all that good stuff away to become a genocidal maniac. Unless I missed something, that's retarded. He isn't worthy of his awesomeriffic theme music.

I happen to know another person who, after earning the respect of millions, found out he was an alien. You might know him as Superman. You might also know that he didn't decide that killing everyone was a better idea than it had been before <_< .

Sorry for being so long-winded. My favorite FF characters are Wakka, Auron, Zack, Genesis, Rikku, Lulu, and perhaps best of all, Seymour (whose motivations actually make sense). Prince Noctis is lookin' pretty awesome, but I'll have to reserve judgment until more information is available.

[Sir Percival]

Well, as a rabid an avid Sephiroth fan, I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

One, he found out he was experimented on and his whole life was a lie. His mother was an alien who fell from the sky, who was thought to be an ancient originally. She was also trying to mutate him from the inside.

Plus, he was inherently different from Superman. Superman enjoyed his popularity. Sephiroth did not. He preferred to be left to his own devices. He did not TRY to become famous, but get good enough at something and you will inevitably become noticed.

And his motivations? He says his motivation in the Nibelheim flashback. He calls the humans usurpers of the world that rightfully belonged to the Ancients. He hated them for destroying his world, and wanted to carry on his quote unquote mother's legacy. He wanted to take all of the energy from the planet, focused in one point, and absorb it, making himself a living god.

It was the greatest plan of any villain in all of anything I have ever heard of. Find me a greater villain and I will bend as the willow, but there is little chance of that.

Another thing, I got to the end of FF8 when I was about 9 or 10. xD

I beat Yunalesca for a friend when I was, oh, 11 or 12 and he had been stuck. I beat it on the first try, and had never played the game before.

I am also buying FFXIII >.>

[noxomols]

Oooh, a debate. I honor thee, sir *bows respectfully*.

Moving right along...

Soo...Sephiroth doesn't realize that the being he's pledging his life to is a terrifying extra-terrestrial monster? That does change things slightly, but by the time Advent Children comes around, he seems pretty clear on his true origin (if I'm not mistaken, his motives change from "cleanse the planet" to "cleanse the planet, make a spaceship out of it, and ride it to another planet to subjugate).

Also, Superman didn't actively try for fame any more than Sephiroth, and he has a love-hate relationship with his fame and the power he has (not to the same degree as, say, Spider-Man, but still). I can't see any evidence of Sephiroth displaying the same. If anything, he's indifferent to it, and I certainly don't see him doing or wanting to do anything else with his life. Of course, if you have such evidence, feel free to provide it. You're no doubt the more educated person on the subject. I just think it speaks very negatively of his character that he cracked so easily, and more negatively still that he would later learn the REAL truth and still keep serving the interests of the creature that ACTUALLY wiped out the beings he was originally fighting for.

The fact that, for all his power, he is defeated anyway also confuses me somewhat. A site called tvtropes.org has a trope (in other words, a "cliche") for this called "Did You Just Punch Out Cthulu?" If Sephiroth is so powerful and so intelligent, how does a ragtag bunch of fighters take him down every time? Made even worse in Advent Children when the protagonist takes him down single-handedly, essentially using just a single attack to do it (I saw that fight, and Cloud was on the defensive the whole time until Omnislash was brought out). I understand he didn't fight at full power, but why the hell not? Is he trying to get revenge, or is he trying to be an extremely malevolent rash?

Ah, a greater villain. How 'bout I find you a few?:

[/b]--I cannot even begin to explain how ingenious this one's schemes were, but I can say without exaggeration that he is likely among the greatest puppetmaster villains of all time. He played his friends, his family, his enemies, and even gods of death like violins, and yes, he cut most of their strings with no remorse and no ramifications against himself. He outsmarts the world's three greatest detectives (all one guy, and FAR from a mental slouch) and gets the vast majority of people in the world to worship and honor him as a god. Even more impressive, he achieved much of his success while he was no older than EIGHTEEN! In addition, no one ever truly defeated him. His only weakness was that he had to deal with other people, and those other people weren't always very reliable.

Ganondorf [The Legend of Zelda]--Specifically, Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. He wins in both of them, coming out with more-or-less what he was trying to get both times (especially in OoT, where he nabs the Triforce of Power and becomes ruler of all the land for seven straight years without any real trouble). I'll admit that his appearance in Wind Waker was somewhat less successful, but given that the world in that reality is how it is because the godesses themselves could think of any way to stop him without a Link besides freezing the entire kingdom in time and flooding it, I'd say he's still pretty badass. His only problem is that he keeps letting Link survive their initial encounters. Seriously, if I'd been defeated by that kid as many times as he has, I'd start arresting and executing anyone who wore green <_< .

Melbu Frahma [The Legend of Dragoon]--He was Emperor of the world to begin with, so he didn't need to "win," but only defend his rule. He failed, but survived by sealing himself in his mortal enemy's MacGuffin and waiting ten thousand years for the guy to use it again, allowing Frahma to possess his foe's body. His patience by itself is astounding, but he doesn't stop there, going on to manipulate all the major powers of the era he finds himself in (and one particularly troublesome Wingly warrior) into handing him the keys to godhood on a silver platter. The protagonists defeat him through a combination of dragon power (which is suggested to be rather godly itself, especially in the case of the aptly named "Divine Dragon") and strong belief in the idea that they decide their own fates.

Seymour Guado [Final Fantasy X]--I wouldn't say he's greater in terms of power or planning, as everything he tries fails. I just wanted to note that his motivations make quite a bit of sense compared to Sephiroth's, and he's certainly the more feasible messiah-figure. He wants to release people from the cycle of suffering by killing them all, which is unreasonable only in that people tend to prefer some sort of choice as to whether they live or die. To me, Sephiroth seems to want to kill for the sake of killing, his vengeful motivations falling away more and more with each appearance. That in itself is not bad for a villain, but again, he was once a revered hero.[/ul]

I can probably think of a few more, but this post is long enough. Sorry about that. I'm very long-winded >_< . Maybe we should make a new topic for this?

[Sir Percival]

*cracks knuckles*

Oh, it's on.

You DARE compare Sephy to Seymour? He was an epic failure of a villain. Yu Yevon was so much better. Also, I looked it up and he also saw that his 'mother' was a blue humanoid figure in a glass tank. Yeah, if I found out that was what my mother was, I would be pretty upset.

In the beginning, Sephiroth read up on his history. H came to believe that humankind had abandoned the Cetra to the calamity, and their eventual doom at its hands. He believed, due to the mistaken belief that Jenova was an Ancient, that he was the last of his kind, and that he needed to avenge his people. Eventually, after being knocked into the lifestream, he refined this idea, blending his idea with Jenova's:

Absorb the lifestream and become a god. The rest is not considered 'canon' Sephy by me, because that wasn't truly him. It was a manifestation, and an imperfect one at that.

There was three remnants. Therefore, he was at 1/3 of his power, or perhaps less. And the reason he lost is because the body sustained too much damage and could not sustain his form.

And the reason for him losing to Cloud and gang was simply arrogance. He got too arrogant, and he neglected the fact that, with materia, they could be as powerful together as he was by himself.

The final battle with Cloud in FF7 was in his mind, so don't bring that one up, please.

[noxomols]

On like Donkey Kong!!!...Sorry. I had to say it <_< . Not 100% sure what it means.

Anyway, I acknowledge that Sephiroth, for all his flaws, is a better villain than Seymour, but only in terms of what he accomplished. Seymour got far, but he never succeeded at anything since the heroes always managed to stop him (often JUST in time). Still, his motives make more sense than those of Sephiroth, and his character receives far better development in the single game he's appeared in. Seymour never had any reason not to want to kill all living things. He was abandoned and banished by his father, his mother killed herself to become a horrifying creature to give him more power in the hopes of pleasing the people that didn't want him, and he spent years alone in exile with nothing to do but think about all of life's horrors and how the quest he was supposed to undertake would only make things better for an indeterminate, but relatively short period for people who didn't even like him. All that, and he was still pretty dang sane. It was his views that became twisted, not his mind (which he used to great effect, if I do say so myself).

Sephiroth, on the other hand, is suggested to have lost it completely. I don't know a lot about his childhood, but it doesn't sound like he was very much abused or mistreated. Tested and experimented upon? Probably. But, the fact that he is a loyal and revered SOLDIER suggests that he was treated fairly well, and he didn't seem to hold any particular dislike for anyone or anything save Hojo. Now that I know that he thought Jenova was a Cetra (which seemed to be the prevailing belief), his motivations do make a bit more sense. Still, I think it's pretty clear based on his behavior and altered motives in Advent Children (which you can't just discount; Sephiroth willed himself into existence through the Jenova cells Kadaj absorbed, so that was definitely his desires and personality at work) that he knows what Jenova is. That means he's now acting out of pure, unfounded malice, which is inconsistent with his "original" character (I put original in quotes because I'm speaking chronologically rather than in terms of game order). Vengeance is understandable. Desiring ultimate power to commit genocide in the name of a being who wiped out the race you previously sacrificed everything to avenge does not.

I do notice, however, that you've nothing to say on the other three villains I put forth. Dost thou concede my point concerning these? >=D

Oh, and I meant to ask you this before, but I forgot: did Sephiroth simply not realize that Aerith was a ture Cetra, or did he simply not think it wise to preserve the last link to the race of beings he thought he was a member of (and their last chance for repopulating the species, however slim that chance might be)? If the latter, he loses more points in my scorebook <_< . If the former, fair enough.

Arrogance...Hmm...If that counts as an excuse, it's a lame one. I can't say that I've never heard of the villain losing just because he was arrogant (Ganondorf, whom I've mentioned previously, is a prime example), but that doesn't make it much better. The point is that it is so very inconsistent with his character, isn't it? When he was a SOLDIER, did he make a habit of toying with targets and enemies before taking them out, or did he just take them out? If the latter, then he's changed drastically for no apparent reason. Also, is Materia really that powerful? If so...dang.

Finally, there's nothing to suggest that he's not at full power in Advent Children when he appears. Granted, he's not at Safer Sephiroth level at that point, but he still seems to be far above anything Cloud is capable of. He seems to summon a storm from nowhere, he dominates Cloud up until the end of the fight, and statements by the creators have made it clear that he is godlike in mind and ability. You could probably cite arrogance as the reason for his defeat yet again, as it seems definitely to be the case here; however, that would still prove the point that his character is poorly developed, as there's nothing to suggest that he was previously so arrogant that he would allow lesser foes to overcome him.

I had no intention of mentioning the mental battle, and I won't reference it now...although, I will say that Cloud himself must have the willpower of several gods combined to be able to overcome the will of someone whose will is so powerful that he can come back from death for no other reason than because he wants to do so.

Lots of wills in that sentence.

[Sir Percival]

Well, as all Final Fantasy villains, you will notice, Sephiroth has the main theme of arrogance and thinking himself above everyone.

Yes, he was one for dragging a battle out in the beginning, and yes, he did know Aerith was half-Cetra. But he considered her a traitor to her own kind, choosing to side against him.

And Sephiroth, over time, bonds with the Jenova cells. The cells are symbiotic, bonding themselves to their host. Since Sephy was using the cells actively, and bonding with them, after his time with them he begins to morph with Jenova, in a sense, and encompasses her goal along with his own. Plus, my argument below will further that.

Also, I don't concede the point, I merely avoid it. They are not better than Sephy, but I cannot convince you of that, nor you the other way, so I merely sidestepped the matter to talk about the heart rather than an offshoot.

Materia is very powerful. Heard of Knights of the Round? Extremely powerful, enough to rival Sephy's power as it contains the knowledge of the Ancients. The same knowledge he himself has.

And yes, the fact that Kadaj is only 1/3 of Sephiroth's personality means that Sephiroth was not entirely himself. He was only 1/3 of himself, meaning that the cold logic and emotional sides weren't there, as that was what the other two represented. So yes, it does say that his power was not what it should have been.

[prythian]

I will just interject here:

Sephiroth is only considered 'godly' and 'the most powerful FF villain' because the fans saw him that way and Squeenix saw nothing to lose by NOT making him fit the fans' expectations. In other words, it's only because there were so many people introduced to FF through FF7 that saw Sephiroth as the greatest villain ever that Square has treated him as such.

Oh... and Tropes Are Not Cliches, as anyone who has spent time on TvTropes should know. XD

[noxomols]

I don't know about a lot of Final Fantasy villains, but the ones I know of didn't seem so arrogant. Yu Yevon was trying to protect his people, Sin itself was a being of instinct, Seymour just couldn't "pull it off," so to speak, and the sorceresses in Final Fantasy VIII...well, I won't speak of them, as I don't know the whole, complex truth of their existence.

And again, if Sephiroth was SO arrogant that he can lose to people who are not as powerful as him, why didn't that occur in the past? Genesis, the closest thing to an equal Sephiroth has, apparently couldn't beat him with all his might, and neither could he do so while fighting alongside Angeal. If Sephiroth is as arrogant as you say, he should have been defeated at some point. Also, when I say "there's no evidence to suggest (x)," it would be for the best if you could include evidence in your rebuttal. Otherwise, the point is unfounded.

If you're suggesting that Jenova's will affected Sephiroth, I don't think you're correct. I can't say for sure that that isn't the case, as there seems to be some fan debate over it; however, the creators all but openly state that Sephiroth's will was so powerful that it overcame Jenova's. In fact, I think they DO openly state it in one o' them thar guidebooks or whatever. That means he overcame her will and took her power AND her knowledge. He's acting on nothing but his own desires. If he had always shown the penchant for destruction and the hunger for power that he now displays, I could see it being reasonable for him to go on; however, he's completely lost what motivated him before, and he still won't stop. Where did that come from?

Our discussion of other villains is not entirely irrelevant, but I will leave it alone if that is your wish. This is, however, a good place for me to state that I do not think Sephiroth to be the worst villain of all time or anything like that. In terms of difficulty, flair, and dramatic appeal, he's definitely very admirable. I just find his sudden shift from hero to horror to be something of a wall banger.

You're gonna have to back up your claims concerning the Knights of the Round. I do know that they are very powerful, but all this about knowledge of the Ancients is news to me. Besides that, not only is knowledge =/= to power in this case (this isn't G.I. Joe or something <_<), but the implication given Sephiroth's appearance and the means by which he assumed it is that he has transcended the power of the summons. I can't fairly say that summons don't matter, but I will say that I doubt that--were the battle to be rendered as a CGI sequence or something--the Knights would make an appearance.

Again, I need evidence here. The only evidence I see contradicts what you're saying. Sephiroth does not seem to be visibly troubled during his fight with Cloud. For goodness' sake, the guy never even so much as blinks, nor does he bother breathing. Cloud is swinging and grunting and jumping about, and Sephiroth's just moving along. Like I said, arrogance here is a possibility (arrogance bordering on suicidal masochism, that is xP), but Sephiroth's behavior during the fight and the creators' Word of God makes it hard to understand how he could possibly have lost to Cloud fighting alone. Even if his power wasn't what it should have been (and I still ain't concedin' that point <_<), it was FAR removed from Cloud's level.

[Sir Percival]

Okay, your sentiments are appreciated......

But yes, Sephiroth himself in the Nibelheim flashback (pre-insanity) states that it is the knowledge of the Ancients condensed which enables them to access the magic through materia.

I can't rebut any of the rest of this right now, I am too angry and I really do not want it to spill into this.

[mrcrazycakes]

Jan 28, 2010 22:31:06 GMT -5 Secret Agent Cat said:

Has anyone played it? I don't know if it is for any other console, but I play it on my sister's PSP. I've liked it so far but there is this part where I have a infiltrate this place in the mountains... and I have to be sneaky about it. >w<;; I've gotten stuck at that part.

Let's talk about FF7: Crisis Core.

Or, another Final Fantasy game? Who is your guys' favorite character? Mine has to be Zack and Aerith from 7. Rinoa and Squall from 8. Yuna from 10.

What FF games have you played? I've played 8 and 10, but have yet to beat either and just started playing Crisis Core and I think I played Virge of Cerberus.

You can sneak if you want to on that part. I got caught about five times, and the guards went away. Don't remember the exact number, though.

Favorite characters... Well, I somewhat like Tidus, and I'm a fan of both Kefka and Sephiroth. All time favorite is Sazh from XIII; he's funny. Squall was cool, but kind of emo. Selphie was way cooler XDDDDD

[The Bilby Guy]

Kuja is the best FF villain. -Purposefully fishes for a brand new debate- XD

Crisis Core was fun but I stopped playing it before I finished a second play-through. The hardest part of the game seems to be balancing missions/extra experience and materia growth with what you really need for the story parts. Some times I was feeling too weak others too strong, and almost never quite right. lol

Kuja from IX really is my favourite villain though. My favourite Final Fantasy game is IX anyway(It also happens to be the favourite of the creator of Final Fantasy, and has music that the composer for the series personally considers to be his best work, so all in all I'm pretty comfortable with my choice there since I have really good company, if not massive company. ^^) Fav overall character? Sazh from XIII is trying to but his way into the spot for me as well, Crazycakes. Haha.

[mrcrazycakes]

Mar 30, 2010 21:10:56 GMT -5 The Bilby Guy said:

Kuja is the best FF villain. -Purposefully fishes for a brand new debate- XD

Crisis Core was fun but I stopped playing it before I finished a second play-through. The hardest part of the game seems to be balancing missions/extra experience and materia growth with what you really need for the story parts. Some times I was feeling too weak others too strong, and almost never quite right. lol

Kuja from IX really is my favourite villain though. My favourite Final Fantasy game is IX anyway(It also happens to be the favourite of the creator of Final Fantasy, and has music that the composer for the series personally considers to be his best work, so all in all I'm pretty comfortable with my choice there since I have really good company, if not massive company. ^^) Fav overall character? Sazh from XIII is trying to but his way into the spot for me as well, Crazycakes. Haha.

I sort of like Kuja, but he weirds me out just a little. Haven't seen enough of him to get a full idea, but I like him overall.

Meheh, Sazh is awesome, isn't he? He was my favorite as soon as I saw the Chocobo chick xD