Rules Overhaul [FORUM WIDE DISCUSSION]

[NiNeLiVeS]

OVERHAULING THE RULES

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Alright! Ahem. Let's see, where does this microphone plug in... ah! Perfect. Testing. Testing?

Ah. There we are.

So, as some of you (all of you?) probably know DS has just re-opened after a rather lengthy hiatus. This started around mid-May and went until sometime last week-end (say, second half of July). As I understand it, this hiatus was mostly prompted by a lack of activity on DS meaning that the fundamental problems may have started say, last December or even earlier.

While I'd like to remain super positive about DS' grand re-opening, let's try to remain a little on the realistic end of things. A pause, no matter how small and short, is a bad symptom in the vitals of any site, especially a role-play one. To be frank, I'd say that our current chances of seeing DS last into 2012 stand at about an even fifty (maybe less) and that the next few weeks will be crucial to making sure that it does stay online.

Those of us that have seen sites come and go have all have been there before: forums that died, forums that started off promising and then died ignominious deaths just weeks/months later- we see the little signs, feel the lack of life, watch as the little green ECG-line in our heads threatens to flatline.

Sometimes, it's just what happens. A confluence of bad luck and terrible timing that takes most of the admin structure offline during the first few precious weeks that a site is needed to get started and those who are left are left stranded without a clear idea of who's in charge and who has the authority to do what.

Sometimes, though, it's a series of bad choices. A friend once told me that a roleplay community is made of its members. Not the mods, or the admins, or the head admin, or the graphics, or rules, or mass PMs, or the people who have been here longer than anyone else... it's really just the members. It's the Cbox and the super random conversations, the chats on MSN or AIM or Skype or whatever, the role-plays (of course!), the planning that goes into them, the games we play in the spam forum and all the rest of the seemingly inconsequential little things that add up and become something more. That is the heart and soul of DS.

And the only thing this community asks for is the same thing we ask for, the same reason any mod or admin does their thankless task (and it is thankless, don't get me wrong, I've been there, I know how tough it is and how little credit anyone ever gives you despite the sheer amount of time you put in).

Fun.

Yup. Most of us are here because it's, plain and simple, fun.

And, as loathe as I am to say this, the current rules do not effectively address a lot of issues that members bring up time and time again as troublesome or problematic. Aka, their experience becomes rather un-fun. I've talked with quite a few of you online and the majority suggest that a lot of things have to be changed. I have my own ideas about a lot, but I'll throw this out and see what you guys have to say about it.

RE-WRITING THE RULEBOOK

• 1. Problem: the current 'locked world' system is neat in theory. But in execution it greatly limits the number of places your character can actually be. That's kind of... less than ideal.
  
  Solution: unlock all worlds.
  
  
• 2. Problem: character growth is far, far too slow. Because of the above you can't get into a great number of threads and furthermore just getting to tier two? EPIC JOURNEY OF EPICNESS that possibly lasted two books longer than it needed to.
  
  Solution: this has a number of different possibilities. One of the ones I suggested is a munny-for-AP idea or that you're given a set number of AP at each say, 10th or 20th post in addition to what you can get in missions. Or possibly a combination of both systems.
  
  
• 3. Problem: Warriors are just gosh-darned too weak.
  
  Solution: this was under discussion before the DS went into maintenance mode. We're definitely bringing this up again.
  
  
• 4. Problem People are discouraged from applying for auditions.
  
  Solution: I am entirely willing to do all canon auditions if anyone thinks that the potential workload is too high. And for free. Obviously.
  
  
• 5. Problem: The plot killed the site.
  
  I. Uh. I never actually saw the plot. Just the invasions which in my head were classified as random battles possibly leading to plot. But in all honesty whenever this problem is brought up I have to admit I start thinking about the Hogfather or the Easter bunny. OTL
  
  Solution: ...new plot? Maybe?
  
  
• 6. Problem: Some people are concerned that the abilities as written lack flexibility. This concern is a little harder to address because of the way the current abilities are written. I would like to get some sort of discussion going as to how we could potentially make custom abilities easier to obtain or design and so on.
  
  Solution: Discuss!
  
  

...

I think there were more, but I'm not actually at home as I write this so I kinda need to get going. Please feel free to add more problems/complaints/solutions.

...I really am too long-winded. I apologize. xD


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[The Squeak]

I'm not good with debates like these, so bear with me. I tend to get winded and dive off-subject. Also, I don't have much to go with as of now, but I'll point out a few things I can see right off the bat. I may add more as it grows.

Problem 4: No Love For Auditions — Being blunt, I think most people are discouraged from ever auditioning for Canon Characters is because all of the (cough cough) "good ones" are taken. (eg., the Final Fantasy characters.). It leaves others with those who are either inept at actual fighting, support characters, or otherwise comic relief characters whose entire purpose is to fill the role of perpetual butt monkey. I know it should serve as motivation to play characters people aren't familiar with playing, but it doesn't give anyone a chance to play with something that floats in their home turf, as far as roleplaying style goes.

Possible Solution: Either limit the amount of, quote-unquote, "popular" characters a particular person can obtain by a certain amount (no offense to Crazy here, or whoever has all of them cool guys, ILU! D:), or increase the needed requirements for said "popular" characters. If we do it the latter way, we can weed out those who just want an excuse to swing around Cloud's Buster Sword for teh lulz.

Problem 5: Stale, Moldy, Month-Old Plot — I'll admit, the plot left me bamboozled. I had no idea what was going on (given the fact that I'm still somewhat new here), so I can't exactly say I wanted to get in on it any time soon. Not to mention, it's harder for newer characters to jump in on the action when you have so many, higher-powered characters massacring Anomalies and Heartless left and right. It kind of makes me think of MMORPGS, where newbies flitter around a grossly-packed auction house filled with high-level pros, trying their hardest to find an Inn to buy food at. XD

Possible Solution: Potentially refurbish the current plot so that it explains a bit more about the recent Anomaly invasions, or up its level of spontaneity, to spur members into action. (Hey, that's what "random encounters" are for, right?)

[prythian]

NOTE: Any and all opinions below are highly likely be influenced by a certain defensiveness of systems I helped set up. Feel free to ignore my comments.

1. The solution to this problem actually was in the works; every time the Storm attacked a world, or a Keyblader was on the world, or a world artifact was obtained, we could open up the worlds more and more. No, the locked worlds aren't the thing really limiting world travel; it's the Gummi Ships. I think we set those up a little too expensive.

That said, the solution of 'unlock all worlds' and 'make gummi ships cheap/free' can and will result in Keyblades being kind of... useless except as a weapon, which was NOT the goal. The goal was to make them important in other ways. If you can solve that problem with your solution, then while I dislike removing the locked/unlocked system, in my opinion it wouldn't be a bad thing.

2. Actually, this is FAR, FAR simpler to fix than you think. XD

You see, the way the RP Turn-In system worked was that every thread, every invasion, every quest got a certain number of skill points and synthesis materials upon completion. The simplest way to raise character growth? Change the money code to give higher amounts of munny per post and edit the RP Turn In system to give more skill points. Another thing you could do was do away with the idea that it is what you do in the thread that determines the skill points you get, and have them be generalized, though that adds just a bit more work in that staff need to wait to know what skill points are added to the character.

4. This is something almost every site has to deal with. DS was hoped to suffer from it less, seeing as every character could be powerful and special given proper care, but... It didn't really work that way. The munny cost for characters originally didn't serve a purpose except to cut down on the workload, but... now it does. Canon characters that are dropped keep their abilities, remember? If a canon character has been played before, we should probably keep a munny cost for them.

5. There WAS actually some antagonists and other things planned for the plot. The reason we never got to them was that we were still in the 'Traverse Town' stage of the plot. I mean, we'd had two invasions? Technically one and a half? The problem with the plot that killed the site was that we staff couldn't stay active with it long enough. Getting a new plot is certainly a possibility, and we DID have stuff planned to allow random encounters with Anomaly outside of Storm Days. Right now, though, we just... aren't far enough in the plot as it was originally designed to explain much. That was going to change right at the end of Disney Castle, but we didn't get that far.

6. I admit, the abilities lack a certain amount of flexibility, and this is likely because there is so MANY of them. Customs, too, have an issue because they need to not be basically a premade ability (so that people don't try to get premades earlier through customs). If you want to increase the flexibility of the abilities, you're going to have to cut down on the amount of them, which is... a less than ideal solution, which likely raises its own problems.

[Spring [Complex]]

1. Problem: the current 'locked world' system is neat in theory. But in execution it greatly limits the number of places your character can actually be. That's kind of... less than ideal.

Solution: unlock all worlds.

Prythian nailed the problem unlocked worlds create, they make the Keyblade useless. The better solution is to foster each world as a community of RPers and develop plot for each world. This was in the works by the Plot Team. With the Keyblade and World Artifacts serving as a means to encourage off-worlders to come to these places, get them unlocked and provide good fun.

2. Problem: character growth is far, far too slow. Because of the above you can't get into a great number of threads and furthermore just getting to tier two? EPIC JOURNEY OF EPICNESS that possibly lasted two books longer than it needed to.

Solution: this has a number of different possibilities. One of the ones I suggested is a munny-for-AP idea or that you're given a set number of AP at each say, 10th or 20th post in addition to what you can get in missions. Or possibly a combination of both systems.

Prythian's simpler solution makes our lives easier.


Problem People are discouraged from applying for auditions.

Solution: I am entirely willing to do all canon auditions if anyone thinks that the potential workload is too high. And for free. Obviously.

As I understood it, the munny fee for the audition was why people were discouraged. Removing the fee for untaken characters and then charging for dropped canons since dropped canons maintain their abilities is good. However if we're insistent on keeping the fee for auditions, then you the player should get something for having said canon otherwise they'll forever be worthless.

5. Problem: The plot killed the site.

I. Uh. I never actually saw the plot. Just the invasions which in my head were classified as random battles possibly leading to plot. But in all honesty whenever this problem is brought up I have to admit I start thinking about the Hogfather or the Easter bunny. OTL

Solution: ...new plot? Maybe?

This is pretty much it, though I won't say the plot killed the site, the EXECUTION of the plot killed the site. Yes there was ideas but outside of...Crazy and myself, nobody else cared, sadly. Now I feel there's potential to actually do something with the Anomaly maybe but I'd need to seriously sit and consider somethings. Main pro was Invasions are a good idea, no way around that. If you don't invade a world, then said world doesn't gain much plot. However to counter-balance that, staff needs to be keeping ontop of that plot and providing a way for people to understand it. I actually do have a solution for this and it works pretty well on paper/setup. The gist is every character has a mandatory journal (their bio) and every world has a Journal Entry. These journal entries act as a thread archive, where completed threads become "Canon" to that world. From there, ye only need someone to make a TL-DR topic for people to read, along with announcements from time to time.


6. Problem: Some people are concerned that the abilities as written lack flexibility. This concern is a little harder to address because of the way the current abilities are written. I would like to get some sort of discussion going as to how we could potentially make custom abilities easier to obtain or design and so on.

Solution: Discuss!

I feel like problem 6 really does merit a lengthy debate, a very lengthy debate. On the one hand I'd like to see flexible application of a technique and even reward for people doing so, on the other hand, there's plenty of abilities to cover the bases for what you need. I feel combine that with customs one can make for their character to give them some shine and on paper, everything does seem alright. In practice, something wasn't right and I feel like for those of us from FM, FM's custom system was superior in flexibility/customization.

However, I've spoken with Prythian and revealed something interesting to all of us worried about the strictness of the premade abilities and how to utilize them (cosmetically and dynamically)

1. Break down the ability into its base requirements and its effects.
2. Determine the way in which it deals those effects. (For example, we don't want someone changing fireball to NOT be a projectile; that's changing how the ability works, not cosmetically.)
3. If your change does not affect any of those, tada! You've got a cosmetic change.

Which enables characters to be unique with their premades and allows people to focus on techniques which really are different from the premades as their custom. So your character can have different coloured fireballs, launch them in a comedic manner (for the Disney charries), etc.

Therefore I don't feel Problem 6 is...a problem anymore.

[The Mysterious Mr. Jameson Q.]

We can't change anything until our leader is in possession of the admin account.

1. Problem: the current 'locked world' system is neat in theory. But in execution it greatly limits the number of places your character can actually be. That's kind of... less than ideal.

Solution: unlock all worlds.

I completely agree with this solution, and think locked worlds harms the site and only serves to protect a continuity people are not interested in.

2. Problem: character growth is far, far too slow. Because of the above you can't get into a great number of threads and furthermore just getting to tier two? EPIC JOURNEY OF EPICNESS that possibly lasted two books longer than it needed to.

Solution: this has a number of different possibilities. One of the ones I suggested is a munny-for-AP idea or that you're given a set number of AP at each say, 10th or 20th post in addition to what you can get in missions. Or possibly a combination of both systems.

No opinion.

3. Problem: Warriors are just gosh-darned too weak.

Solution: this was under discussion before the DS went into maintenance mode. We're definitely bringing this up again.

No opinion.

4. Problem People are discouraged from applying for auditions.

Solution: I am entirely willing to do all canon auditions if anyone thinks that the potential workload is too high. And for free. Obviously.

I think Canons should be separated into two groups. In-Demand canons should be able to be auditioned for, and have character sheets. Minor Canons should be available to everyone on the site to use as they see fit, wherever appropriate.

5. Problem: The plot killed the site.

I. Uh. I never actually saw the plot. Just the invasions which in my head were classified as random battles possibly leading to plot. But in all honesty whenever this problem is brought up I have to admit I start thinking about the Hogfather or the Easter bunny. OTL

Solution: ...new plot? Maybe?

From the member side the "plot" was senseless battle after senseless battle with no substance holding it together. Frankly it wasn't fun, and even kind of boring. Sometimes it went a step further into the terrain of frustrating.
And from what sneak-peeks I got at the plot itself, the intro was generic, not focused on the players, and had a poor hook. Everything I understand of DS's plot, all of the evidence that was presented, was that someone wanted to write a novel and force people to RP through that story's events. Rather create a story based around a community of RP characters.

6. Problem: Some people are concerned that the abilities as written lack flexibility. This concern is a little harder to address because of the way the current abilities are written. I would like to get some sort of discussion going as to how we could potentially make custom abilities easier to obtain or design and so on.

Solution: Discuss!

No opinion.

[The Squeak]

1. Problem: the current 'locked world' system is neat in theory. But in execution it greatly limits the number of places your character can actually be. That's kind of... less than ideal.

Solution: unlock all worlds.

I have nothing on this one, though both ends of the argument provide valid reasons. However, despite my lack of invoice, I'm gonna side with Prythian on this, mainly because I'm a stickler for staying with universal continuity. XD

2. Problem: character growth is far, far too slow. Because of the above you can't get into a great number of threads and furthermore just getting to tier two? EPIC JOURNEY OF EPICNESS that possibly lasted two books longer than it needed to.

Solution: this has a number of different possibilities. One of the ones I suggested is a munny-for-AP idea or that you're given a set number of AP at each say, 10th or 20th post in addition to what you can get in missions. Or possibly a combination of both systems.

Going with Pryth on this one, again. The way I see it, people want more bang for their buck, but the current growth rate is going at a snail's pace right now. The increase on munny and AP gained after threads doesn't have to be dramatically increased, but just high enough to allow members more development options. That way, we can have more characters who have specialized Ranks instead of "jacks-of-all-trades" with subpar abilities and spells.

3. Problem: Warriors are just gosh-darned too weak.

Solution: this was under discussion before the DS went into maintenance mode. We're definitely bringing this up again.

Don't have much for this one, since I wasn't exactly around for that conversation. (Had IRL problems to deal with). Maybe improve their overall damage output or attack/movement speed? Or, maybe, give them a few more abilities that help combat the Ranks that have that defined edge against them? (ie., spellcasters)

4. Problem People are discouraged from applying for auditions.

Solution: I am entirely willing to do all canon auditions if anyone thinks that the potential workload is too high. And for free. Obviously.

Q's got something going on with his idea. No invoice of my own (as usual. ;A; ), but I think this one's worth looking into.

5. Problem: The plot killed the site.

I. Uh. I never actually saw the plot. Just the invasions which in my head were classified as random battles possibly leading to plot. But in all honesty whenever this problem is brought up I have to admit I start thinking about the Hogfather or the Easter bunny. OTL

Solution: ...new plot? Maybe?

The plot, as is, has potential to work. The only problem I see is its "newbie-friendliness". There isn't any openings for newer members to get involved in the plot, since it seems to revolve around random battles, like Q pointed out. Maybe increase the range of worlds in which the Storm hits from one to two? Have small portals or something spew in Anomalies from time to time? Keep members on their toes with it. Additionally, find a way to tie it all in with each other—Kingdom Hearts is famous for having those impossibly intricate story lines that seamlessly blends in with the other games, and then leaves room for heavy speculation. "How did this happen?" "What was the ultimate purpose?" "Is there a man behind the man?" "Who was phone?"

6. Problem: Some people are concerned that the abilities as written lack flexibility. This concern is a little harder to address because of the way the current abilities are written. I would like to get some sort of discussion going as to how we could potentially make custom abilities easier to obtain or design and so on.

Solution: Discuss!

Don't have anything on this one. <____<

[The Mysterious Mr. Jameson Q.]

I'm giving this another go, but my first assertion still stands.
We can't, and we should not, do anything until we are in possession of the administrator account.

1. Problem: the current 'locked world' system is neat in theory. But in execution it greatly limits the number of places your character can actually be. That's kind of... less than ideal.

Solution: unlock all worlds.

The initial assessment of this is exactly what it should be, and any defenses of it are empirically disproven. We are creating a roleplay website --> Members come to this roleplay website for fun --> "Let's do needlessly annoying crap just for the sake of continuity!"

In that thought process there is no real ground, and fostering world-based RP communities didn't work last time. What in god's name does anyone think will make it work this time around? Incentives? We tried doing that just to get people to RP, and look how well that went over. Incentives won't work, locking worlds won't work. What will work, is having worlds that people want to RP in, and letting them do so.

If I want to RP in Atlantica, I should be able to do so. It shouldn't need any unlocking, and god dammit, I shouldn't have to spend my hard-earned munny making a custom ability just so I can RP there.

To facilitate this solution, I remember discussing this very issue, and I presented an idea. For you guys who are focused on continuity, consider this especially;

1. People can only RP on one world at a time.
2. All the worlds are unlocked, and Gummi shuttles run by an entrepreneurial moogle make trips between the planets at the desire of travelers. So there is actually a reason people are getting from one world to the next. If you're so inflexibly rooted in continuity that you'll probably rage as my suggestions continue, you can- *sigh* -even charge small amounts of munny to travel in between the worlds. 5 or 10 munny, a negligible amount, would be ideal.

2. Problem: character growth is far, far too slow. Because of the above you can't get into a great number of threads and furthermore just getting to tier two? EPIC JOURNEY OF EPICNESS that possibly lasted two books longer than it needed to.

Solution: this has a number of different possibilities. One of the ones I suggested is a munny-for-AP idea or that you're given a set number of AP at each say, 10th or 20th post in addition to what you can get in missions. Or possibly a combination of both systems.

There are too many possibilities to balance these numbers. I think we should lower this on the priority bar, and come back to it when the administrative team is in place and more able to discuss it.

3. Problem: Warriors are just gosh-darned too weak.

Solution: this was under discussion before the DS went into maintenance mode. We're definitely bringing this up again.

Again, there are a lot of possibilities to be worked with here. I've worked on this in the past, and when I left people suddenly seemed to forget how my solutions worked and everything ended up in disarray again.

Which means I've got experience in success and failure, and my professional opinion is to wait until the administrative team is all ready to get together, present their ideas and sincerely evaluate which one is likely to work the best.

4. Problem People are discouraged from applying for auditions.

Solution: I am entirely willing to do all canon auditions if anyone thinks that the potential workload is too high. And for free. Obviously.

I think my last solution for this is good:
In-demand canons are open for audition.
Minor canons remain on their homeworld, and are freely RPed by anyone who wants them on that world.

5. Problem: The plot killed the site.

I. Uh. I never actually saw the plot. Just the invasions which in my head were classified as random battles possibly leading to plot. But in all honesty whenever this problem is brought up I have to admit I start thinking about the Hogfather or the Easter bunny. OTL

Solution: ...new plot? Maybe?

A new plot would be optimal, in my opinion. We could even keep themes like "The Anomaly",

I stick to what I said last. The constant, disjointed battles killed interest in the plot rather than built it. 3 Battles in highly populated Radiant Garden was a fantastic hook.

However, I am going to outline 3 of the major reasons I think this plot failed or was destined to.

• We followed battle with battle. There was very little exposition, and no non-battle action. It was just a big fight, and then another big fight that was even harder, and the plot hadn't even been revealed at that point. There was no big baddy we were looking forward to defeating some day. There was no mysterious scheme we'd yet seen the beginnings to. Instead there was another place that wanted more help, while Radiant Garden remained in a state of disrepair that we had no way to remedy.
  What could we do better? Have some character based interactions. You should know the questions your audience is going to ask when you work a plot, and you should be able to answer them in such a way that they stay driven and attached. They want to keep involved, and to continue working to unravel the enemy's schemes, and to defeat their minions.
  What we should not do? Overwhelm the audience not only with consistent battling, but with battles that soon become inappropriate for the players' levels. DS didn't seem to have much improvisation in determining that appropriate scaling of combat, and the spacing was pretty poor. When your battle-to-drama ratio shifts out of balance, things are going to fall apart regardless of how active your member base tries to be.
  
  
• Getting involved was difficult. This ties back to travelling between the worlds. If I'm stuck on Land of Dragons because that's where I happened to make my first character, I currently have 0 Ways of getting involved in the plot under old DS. To get involved in the storm, you were required to make a radiant garden character, just so you could get involved in the plot. This, does not, as some would say; foster small RP communities. People don't want to wait around for your plot thread to get to them. This RP and people are ambitious. They want to do their own thing, and if they want to get involved with the plot, they should be enabled to do so.
  What could we do better? Let transportation between worlds take place, and rather than limit people based on where their character lives, limit the amount of characters allowed to enter the thread.
  What should we not do? Get in the way of ambitious players, and encourage less extroverted players to get involved in the plot as a way of integrating into the community.
  
  
• This section has been struckthrough on the grounds of being outdated information, but for the sake of posterity shall remain here. Regardless, the author feels, that although the grounds on which he made claims are no longer valid, the claims themselves still serve a purpose.
  Remis, Suni, and Arcantos: I don't know how many of you have seen or heard of this, but it's about time it came to light, what with DS being dead and all
  

  "General Plot Focus:
  
  The trio (Remis, Suni, Arcantos) meet on Radiant Garden due to Remis being involved in a number of fights with Arcantos, with Suni healing them both and attempting to mediate the two boys. The three of them grow to form a sort of grudging relationship.
  About a month passes by, and Arcantos overhears his father speaking with a group of mysterious men downstairs about "revolution" and "overthrow of the monarchy" one night after he was supposed to be asleep. He finds out that one of the men is Remis's father, Alban. Arcantos tells this to Remis. Remis informs Suni of this, and she mentions that she had overheard the similar conversations within her own household. The three begin to experience"

  
  I don't know how many of you will feel reading this, but when I was a member, and I stumbled upon this, I was thinking one thing. What? Because this isn't my story. This is three NPC's story. It wasn't a story built for a member base. It wasn't a story for heroes to arise, it was a story with heroes built in.
  What could we do better? Have a plot that is built specifically to address the players' entertainment. As a bunch of volunteers, I think it's easy to forget that a forum doesn't exist to feed into our collective ego. It exists so that people can enjoy it, and creating a plot that facilitates the actions of the User would be a big step in that direction.
  What should we not do? Bully our members. This is an across the board response to every situation, but it is perhaps most poignant here. People are not going to be active and contribute to the community if they are being beaten down. Perhaps some, but that does not speak to the majority, and they are who we should cater to first. With drama & intrigue; action & intensity; story & combat, we achieve a powerful plot. We should not overbalance. Maybe a formula is in order.

6. Problem: Some people are concerned that the abilities as written lack flexibility. This concern is a little harder to address because of the way the current abilities are written. I would like to get some sort of discussion going as to how we could potentially make custom abilities easier to obtain or design and so on.

Solution: Discuss!

This is important, and I think the mechanic behind it should balance out to make custom abilities more forefront.

We can talk about it more when we are settled into our positions of power.

[Spring [Complex]]

Alright based on the flow of discussion thus far, it's safe to conclude that Problems 1 and 5 are very huge and quite frankly, we can't move forward until resolution of those problems is met. However I feel people with problems for 1 and 5 are not entirely aware of some of the setup and the types of roleplay it can provide.

So let me address them as such, starting with Problem 1.

The idea with locked worlds is to promote the build up of that world in terms of roleplay and it's own continuity. I feel people are forgetting that DS' appeal is it's setting and it's a setting where the world's are closed off from each other. The idea is that the world's develop on their own and open up. I see no problem with this if we ignore problem 5 for now because the focus should have been on developing clusters of worlds instead of everyone and their mother flocking to Radiant Garden. Now, I understand why that happened, RG was attacked first and had some prominent people on it to start. However we quickly run into a problem when another world is chosen for attack that is underdeveloped. That world would have just been wiped out if RG was not allowed to access it. Next issue with locked worlds in the plots case is that world's post storm could not see progress and inquisition from the storm. I can't speak for all of RG but I know Kairi and Yuffie worked real hard to understand more about the storm and participated in it's reconstruction. Honestly I don't know if this was simply due to Rocket (calling you out now) simply not restoring our colours or what diplomatic issue was the case but I strongly support Mr. Q's assertion in that not enough was done in the way of drama/understanding to keep the hook going after the initial invasion. It started well though, this I will say for sure. We got Gummi Ships out of it and those things immediately became available sitewide. Locked world's also offer a sense of progression, if we unlock them all now, there won't be much ways to gauge the site's progression.

However if that's the way we're going to do it, then here's how it should have been as a community:

Right at the beginning when people were joining before ANY characters were ever made, we should have held a community vote. "What world do you all want to start the plot from?" that's it really. It makes much more sense for a small community like DS whom valued a sense of progression to have all been on ONE world and progressed with the plot to new worlds as time went on. THEN when we got to new worlds, we could make new characters on those worlds. Now for those whom just didn't want to follow along or wanted a bit of free roam, I was trying to develop a type of character/plot mechanic for those of us who just loved the crazy fighting and exploration.

I dubbed them "Storm Chasers", this was supposed to be a group of warriors whom consistently pursued the movement of the storm aka FM's fabled FACTION. Yes, a real faction that would receive rewards/benefits that actually worked with the plot, shocker! Players could make these characters and be given some insight regarding the Storm. Unfortunately DS bureaucracy or perhaps just the way the plot was delivered was...well fail, simply put. Thus they would have been fairly gimped but I'd have pressed on with them anyway cause they'd receive some good rewards for the "senseless battles" cause heh if you had no idea what was going on, I can't help but agree that they'd be senseless. Plus they'd be able to open up these other worlds quicker for the community and give you a strong Kingdom Hearts feel.

Ah, Kingdom Hearts feel DSA? Yes, cause now I can talk about Problem #5. The plot well I said it best in staff private function and look this topic is proving my point all too well. For whatever each person's reason is, the plot did not hook them and thus as Crazy and I said back then, it'd need to be thrown out. I understand that upper management had slaved away at that plot and developed some interesting things but Mr. Q says it best, that plot did not work to incorporate the community at large. It was like pre-written scenarios in which you'd receive these morsels of information akin to Ansem Reports. If we go back to Problem #1 and the sense of progression in a Locked World system, those pieces of the plot would have rewarded the members and provided mystery/intrigue. They could then look into things via forming threads and events could have been made which would do unique things that weren't combat (or even good Quests).

Man that doesn't even touch upon the half of it, there were other things to the mechanic that weren't great or fleshed out and a proper implementation system either wasn't crafted or wasn't made aware to Crazy or myself so I can't even comment much more other than I feel it was lacking, a lot. Lastly, woo did those battles go slow I tell you. That would need to be improved or a new angle of attack needs to be setup for a new plot. Oh by the way, I feel this should be obvious but if #1 is answered by unlocking worlds then we better throw out the existing plot and setting entirely because the setting and plot don't work with all the worlds unlocked. In fact, I hate to say this but when the worlds are unlocked and people are moving back and forth, it doesn't quite feel like Kingdom Hearts. In Kingdom Hearts it was a set amount of people who did the traversing of worlds. Other people just...went about their lives/were unaware of World Travel/offworlders.

Yeah so that's my two cents, oh and Mr. Q's also right, our Boss needs the Admin account otherwise we're wasting time here, seriously.

[Geizt]

I suppose I'll toss my three cents into the ring, for whatever they're worth.

1. The locked worlds problem.

I've got to say that unlocking the worlds is the best solution. Trying to railroad people into a plot on a forum doesn't work. Fluidity is key to keeping people around. Someone does something unexpected, or inside the rules but without approval? Roll with it. C'est la vie, and all that.

On the continuity note, I've seen something done elsewhere that might work. Perhaps set up a sort of basic calendar, just to timeline important events, and let people build around it. Nothing too hardcore, but just to show how things have progressed.

2. Character growth.

From previous statements, this seems to stand at a lower priority than getting the site back in action, and rightly so. Spring's ideas seem to work here, with bonus AP for posts, as well as quests, and the money for AP would work too. Maybe in conjunction with one another, maybe not. That's just something to think about for the moment.

3. Warriors.

I've got nothing here. That seems to be the normal thing for roleplaying though. Warriors have linear growth, while mages have exponential growth. This leaves warriors in a rut later on compared to mages. Ways to combat this should be discussed.

4. People are discouraged from applying for canons due to auditions.

Honestly, of all the sites I've been on, this site and ones that were worked on by members of this site are the only places that use totally separate auditions for canons. I've seen short rp samples required elsewhere, and normally not with the requirements set here. I'm not saying that's bad or anything though. I'll have to go with the solution Mr. Q posed here.

5. The plot induced death of the site.

The plot here was big, overarching, complex, and never got anywhere. Probably a side effect of being big, overarching, and all that. The Squeak put it nicely, actually. When there were so many high powered characters running around, the more new characters just seemed useless, and thus, had no reason to participate. I mean, if you've got a character struggling on a single anomaly, and another, older character comes in a sweeps the boards, why the hell would you bother going after another? And that leads to stagnation of all but a few characters.

6. Ability problems.

I've got absolutely nothing here. This needs a large discussion with all staff involved.

Last, the lack of an admin account.

Yeah, the person in charge might just need that. Otherwise, this makes no difference. I might know a few people who can help with this, but let's save that as a backup plan.

[Spring [Complex]]

Hmm, I have two rebuttals I'd like to hear from, particularly of new members, members who weren't active enough, etc.

"High Powered characters sweeping Anomaly?" Um...being in the "High Powered characters due to being old tier", I have to say, I completely disagree with this notion, heck I don't even understand it. It's almost like laziness, no offense; "Ah, my senpai are strong, they can take care of the invasion, I'll sit back and do what I want." Instead of actually helping us cause we needed all the help we could get. Let me tell you all something good, it's actually easier for newer people to defeat Anomaly and open up plot than it is for us older Higher Powered characters. Why? The strength of the invasion and thus everything else scales with who's playing. So when we are there it's way harder but if you guys come in, it gets a bit easier so the system actually encourages people to get in. I was really happy to have at least one new member with us and focused my efforts on keeping them able.

The problem with the worlds unlocked is no real plot ever occurs. Sure you can keep a calendar of events but things like that can often be ignored. I feel if you're going to even think of making a sitewide plot successful, you have to do a bit of "Railroading". There's still plenty of room for people to act within that setup and totally change things, heck...although not intentional; Mickey Mouse DIED in the Anomaly invasion of Disney Castle. That's completely huge, yet I bet a lot of people didn't even know that =(

[The Mysterious Mr. Jameson Q.]

Brezzen's input:
Scaling- Cree was mediocre level-wise, but active in the battles, and hardworking. Yet a variety of factors led to his career going from very fun to painful even writing a post for. Once he had reached his invasion thread at disney castle the scaling was inappropriate, and the Anomaly he was fighting was more frustrating than anything else.

On the front of world's locked or unlocked status, I am now a proponent of DSA's suggestions, after hearing her proposals.

[Secret Agent Cat]

World problem.

Have the worlds unlocked to those characters who do not want to partake in the plot events what so ever and be boring and bland and roam freely. However, with my thought complete we'd run into a problem with those characters interacting with plot-sided characters.. so I don't know. I think with the worlds was cause mostly everyone was centered on two worlds in particular (Ahemm..RG and Twilight Town [and also somewhat Destiny Islands]) though some of us did adventure out into no-man's land. But not much progression happened there because most others strayed to the common worlds and thus there was no one to RP with though.. we sort of tried to solve that problem (perhaps without us knowing) by having quests so that they could RP as well as progress some. Truthfully though no one really ventured out into no-man's land.

Just my two pieces (one pieces?), might comment more later once I have something to add.

[The Squeak]

World problem.

Have the worlds unlocked to those characters who do not want to partake in the plot events what so ever and be boring and bland and roam freely. However, with my thought complete we'd run into a problem with those characters interacting with plot-sided characters.. so I don't know. I think with the worlds was cause mostly everyone was centered on two worlds in particular (Ahemm..RG and Twilight Town [and also somewhat Destiny Islands]) though some of us did adventure out into no-man's land. But not much progression happened there because most others strayed to the common worlds and thus there was no one to RP with though.. we sort of tried to solve that problem (perhaps without us knowing) by having quests so that they could RP as well as progress some. Truthfully though no one really ventured out into no-man's land.

Just my two pieces (one pieces?), might comment more later once I have something to add.

I think the main reason everyone centered their characters around worlds like Radiant Garden and Twilight Town (and Destiny Islands) was because a vast majority of the site's characters were stationed there; this probably caused newer members to jump to conclusions and think, "Oh, there's more people here. My chances of roleplaying with somebody are dramatically better."

As far as "encouraging" members to stray into other worlds via missions and the like, I think the main problem with some of these options was how characters would travel there, in the long run. (Without the use of portals, mind you). It's swayed me to have all of the worlds unlocked, but simultaneously, it also brings to mind how we could make Gummi Ships more commercially available so we actually can encourage members to travel to different worlds; not to mention, how to preserve the Keyblades' status as an important key item (forgive the pun).

My two sense on that.

[Geizt]

Hm...after mulling it over for a while, I've got an idea based on Squeak's:

Perhaps a certain number of of some species of sentient creature, I thought Moogles just because of their usual technical prowess, have access to the technology to make Gummi Ships, guard it jealously, and charge for their use, something around 40 munny or so, enough to make characters rp on their homeworld first before setting out. This would limit world travel, as most people (read: NPCs) wouldn't bother to pay the fee, but adventurers and the like (read: PCs) would be able to go from world to world for a fee.

This lets characters move around between worlds if need be, and makes sure that they've got a bit of development. We could also make it so that they can only have threads open on one world at a time, so that they can't cheat the system, and maybe throw in the occasional attack on the Gummi Ship itself to mix things up. This way, the Keyblades are still important, but characters can still move around. And it could be that some worlds are still sealed to the point that they aren't accessible without being opened via keyblade, like plot important worlds. There are a few more ideas that are just half formed in my head, but that's the basis of it.

[The Mysterious Mr. Jameson Q.]

Thanks for the input Geizt, and I hope to see you post more throughout the thread as new things come up.

I just wanted to point your attention to:

Jul 29, 2011 23:29:14 GMT -5 The Mysterious Mr. Jameson Q. said:

To facilitate this solution, I remember discussing this very issue, and I presented an idea. For you guys who are focused on continuity, consider this especially;

1. People can only RP on one world at a time.
2. All the worlds are unlocked, and Gummi shuttles run by an entrepreneurial moogle make trips between the planets at the desire of travelers. So there is actually a reason people are getting from one world to the next. If you're so inflexibly rooted in continuity that you'll probably rage as my suggestions continue, you can- *sigh* -even charge small amounts of munny to travel in between the worlds. 5 or 10 munny, a negligible amount, would be ideal.